Aero package for restrictor-plate races being evaluated
By Bob Pockrass - Associate Editor
Monday, November 23, 2009
NASCAR President Mike Helton says the sanctioning body hasn’t ruled out the possibility of making aerodynamic changes to the Sprint Cup cars for Daytona that could require a test at the track prior to Speedweeks in February.
Jim Fluharty
NASCAR Scene
MIAMI BEACH, Fla. – NASCAR hasn’t ruled out the possibility of making aerodynamic changes to the Sprint Cup cars for Daytona that could require a test at the track prior to Speedweeks in February, NASCAR President Mike Helton said Monday.
Helton talked about changes to the Cup car during a luncheon prior to the NNS/NCWTS Awards Banquet tonight.
With NASCAR Chairman Brian France talking Friday about changes to the car possibly happening during the offseason, Helton expanded on what changes have been made and what the future holds.
One piece of the Cup car that could get changed is the aero package for Daytona and Talladega. Cars went airborne in each of the Talladega races this year. NASCAR has wind-tunnel tests scheduled in a couple of weeks for the Cup car focused on restrictor-plate tracks.
“[We’re] specifically looking at the chemistry of the roof flaps because we have the ability through the camera angles and data collection to learn more about the incidents [at Talladega], particularly the 39 [of Ryan Newman] at Talladega this past October. We can learn more,” Helton said. “We will do things over the offseason and if it is a major change for Daytona, we may have to do something [test] there to take a look at it. We’ll have to wait and see what we find out from the wind tunnel and a complete evaluation.”
As far as any rule changes for the car for races not at Daytona and Talladega, Helton said only to anticipate subtle changes.
“I don’t see anything glaring that has to be fixed, and there is not an overwhelming consensus of anything major [to change],” Helton said. “I still won’t sit here and tell you there won’t be something. … We always put out a rule book and then we put out a lot of [technical] bulletins along the way.
“Several years ago we made a commitment to the team owners not to make major changes without a lot of advance warning. We’re at the end of the season. We’re not that far from the opening of the next season so advance warning, I think, is something that would have to be factored in and we’re in that period.”
The car at times has been blamed for being difficult to adjust and also for too much single-file racing. The rear wing, which replaced a splitter, also has been a topic of conversation. The new Nationwide Series car, which will be introduced for four races in 2010 before a full rollout in 2011, has a spoiler instead of a wing. It also has more manufacturer identity features in the front, which also will help with front downforce.
“I couldn’t sit here and tell you today that the wing is there forever on the Cup side,” Helton said. “I couldn’t tell you that the [front] splitter as we know it on the Cup car will exist forever. I can tell you we are going to learn a lot with the Nationwide car that has a different configuration to it aerodynamically and we’ll learn from that and we’ll see what happens.”
Helton said since the first introduction of the Cup car in 2007 there have been at least 25 subtle changes in the rules. The splitter can be moved asymmetrically, weight can be repositioned differently in the car, and there are spring changes and a smaller flywheel in the motors. Those changes have allowed drivers to adapt to the new car.
“Car owners are very quick to tell us that they don’t want any major changes right now that will cost them a lot of money in engineering or redevelopment,” Helton said. “We continue to look at the subtle elements that we can continue to work with crew chiefs and drivers to give them adjustability. The manufacturers themselves have changes coming in the styling of the nose of the car that we will have to address, which is nothing new.”
One thing NASCAR won’t consider is changes that just make it easier to drive.
“Race cars aren’t supposed to be easy to drive, no more than riding a bull for eight seconds or throwing a 40-yard touchdown pass or hitting 15 home runs,” Helton said. “Those things aren’t easy. If they were easy, they wouldn’t be valuable to fans. It wouldn’t be hero material.”
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26 responses to "Aero package for restrictor-plate races being evaluated". Post a Comment.
STP43FAN said:
Nov 23, 2009 at 6:35 PMAero changes won't keep the cars on the ground - only a much smaller restrictor plate will do that.
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» Confirm Abuse ReportRobby said:
Nov 23, 2009 at 6:50 PMTypical Nascar, swoosh!! Thats the sound of tv ratings going down the toilet. Nascar will never learn, fans make the sport and without us Nascar would be nothing. Open your tiny little ears, fans want a change, give it to us!!!
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» Confirm Abuse Reportlarrymo17 said:
Nov 23, 2009 at 7:22 PMput the spoiler back on and springs on the front and let the crews have adjustabilty
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» Confirm Abuse Reportbeefjurski said:
Nov 23, 2009 at 9:28 PMJust looking at the picture of Mike Helton, he looks like a crook.
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» Confirm Abuse Reportalisoeddie said:
Nov 23, 2009 at 11:17 PMI think the rear wing,while giving downforce when the car is headed in the right direction,gives lift when the car is not,and thats one of the reasons Newmans car took flight like it did.It basically cancelled the roof flaps out.
Report as AbuseIts sounds as though Nascar is all over the situation and will make the necessary changes.
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» Confirm Abuse ReportRobby said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 12:47 AMI highly doubt it #5. Nascar doesn't care about the fans, they only care about the money. The COT is their baby and are not open to changeS. They said before it even rolled on the track that it was going to be a learning process and they would make changes as the car evolved. Well its been running for 3 seasons and what changes do you see have been made to it?? The answer is NONE!!! Someone else said it best Nascar is like the mafia: my way or the highway...
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» Confirm Abuse ReportSTP43FAN said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 1:05 PMAlisoeddie - the roof flaps were a failure in 1994, the first year they debuted. The CONCEPT of roof flaps has been a failure. This is not something unique to the COT.
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» Confirm Abuse Reportmcrealname said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 3:55 PMJUST MAKE IT IROC AND BE DONE.......JEESH....
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» Confirm Abuse Reportgrumpyjim52 said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 4:03 PMLower the banking to 24 degrees in the turns at Daytona and Talladega, take off the restrictor plates and let em' race. End of problem.
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» Confirm Abuse Reporttrtruckin said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 4:32 PMI agree with post #5 about the rear wing. Going forward gives downforce and going backwards it does what it's name implies, it lifts the car like a wing. With all the engineers that NASCAR has why can't they design a wing that will tip and employ like the roof flaps when the car turns backwards?
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» Confirm Abuse Reportjerryswiatek said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 4:45 PMI can't tell you this, I can't tell you that, Somebody better start getting somebody able to tell somebody what somebody is going to do sometime, somewhere, somehow!
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» Confirm Abuse ReportSheilaLovesNASCAR said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 5:08 PMWait a minute. The cars aren't supposed to be easy to drive?!? Are we looking for better racing, or more crashes? I thought NASCAR was all about good racing.
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» Confirm Abuse Reportandee said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 5:10 PMAfter a car is a few feet off of the ground,the roof flaps do no good. It is almost imposible to eliminate the fact that a mechanical impact will not lift the car higher than the flaps have effect.What do you think of that Mr. Helton?
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» Confirm Abuse Reportwfover said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 5:32 PMPut a figure 8 in the infield at Dega. That'll slow em down
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» Confirm Abuse ReportWerner said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 5:45 PMa few of the cars that have flipped, were actually flipped over wheb they were going sideways...hey it's racing...stuff is going to happen...the worst looking wreck was Hornish at the Glen and that car never flipped...
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» Confirm Abuse ReportOneToGoWhenYouGetHere said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 6:00 PMI think Helton is missing the boat on "not making the car easier to drive." If Albert Pujols or Ryan Howard had to use a mandated heavier bat, let's say 50 oz instead of 35, they'd be hitting be five home runs a season instead of forty-five. Games would be way less interesting and fans would stop buying tickets. If Tony, Jimmie, Jeff and Jr could have cars that drive easier, instead of worrying about keeping their cars off the wall, they could actually concentrate on passing, making racing way more interesting again. Duh!
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» Confirm Abuse Reportleftturn said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 6:22 PMThere is what, an 84-85 day 'off season'? They are now looking into it and will decide? Santa's elves are real busy right now and I don't think turning out a proven car by the time of Daytona is in the realm of reality for all the teams. The expense alone is a non-starter for a lot of the small and single teams. If this car adapts to some of the old car engineering and mechanics it may work in time. But any type of major rebuild dooms this project.
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» Confirm Abuse Reportblk97lss said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 6:22 PMNascar needs to slow these cars down, WAY down, like into the 160 mph bracket. Smaller engines, smaller carburetors, put the driving back into the drivers' hands so they're not just piloting a projectile around the track waiting for the crash. Yes, I said crash. "Accident" is the wrong term to use in racing because it's only a matter of time before two projectiles collide. The aero-package used up until Sr's death was a step in the right direction...It punched a HUGE hole in the air and made single-car moves possible again even with a restricted engine. This is what is making the Nationwide races better at restrictor plate tracks. Roof-flaps were and continue to be a great safety feature. Unfortunately, even with the flaps a single car could be "helped" into the air by another car. It seems that the wing on the COT is making the flaps uneffective and just by itself, (the Ryan Newman incident) these cars become an aero-foil when turned around. I believe there is not just one answer. A combination of things are going to have to change to eliminate this problem.
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» Confirm Abuse ReportWerner said:
Nov 24, 2009 at 7:50 PMeven the "old" car got airborne and flipped....so putting a spoiler on can't be the answer...usually it's driver error that causes these wrecks...
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» Confirm Abuse Reportracinghcr said:
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:26 AMThese Nascar "Big Bosess in the BOX" don't have a CLUE!!! No wonder the TV Ratings and Attendance at the tracks are tanking !! NO CREDIBILITY in anything the Bosses do ! PREDICTION: The Nascar "Bosses" will do something like secret bigger carb plates to let Jr. win so they can make more money and sell more souvenirs. Making racing better 101 for the "Nascar Big Bosses" HERE'S what to do:1) Take all Aero devices off so the DRIVER will have to drive,brake,and acellorate through the corners AGAIN---DRIVERS should not point the cars wide open on the Gas all the way around the track -anyone can do this.2)Narrow the tires and harden the tire compounds so the DRIVER will have to DRIVE the cars through the turns. The harder tire compound will save money with less changes needed, and as the tires wear the Better DRIVERS will shine ! SIMPLE--Probably TOO Logical and SIMPLE for these Nascar "Big Bosses" to comprehend--Oh well MOST Fans have more COMMON SENSE than the Nazicar "Bosses"--Guess that's why they are staying home,turning off the TV ,and spending Quality time with Family and Friends. The Nascar "Big Bosses" have no one to blame ,but THEMSELVES! Also--Nascar "Big Bosses" --WHERE is your often bragged on "Level Playing Field"--a mere "MYTH" when only one team and driver wins all the time and gets more money to make their cars so much better that there's really NO "level playing field" at all in Nazicar's "SHOWS" !
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» Confirm Abuse Reportjerryswiatek said:
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:05 PMObviously the level the playing field is not working, I like taking all the wings off, keep the flaps, drive with talent and guts in the corners, No way 160 mph pardon me this is auto RACING, not golf or a pony show, or at least it used to be. I'm with a little harder tire also, But stop somewhere we can't have the Robby Gordons Kenny Wallace and those winning all the races with talent, OH outlaw wind tunnel testing altogether.
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» Confirm Abuse Reportkcysr said:
Nov 25, 2009 at 2:52 PMIf slowing the cars down would stop them from rolling explain why at less 160 MPH Joey Logano rolled Dover and Cars flip on the highway at 70. The problem is not the flipping, cars have always did this it is going airborne and taking down the fence. When cars are exactly the same on a race track they can't get away from each other or pass without help which is the cause of this problem. When they fix it someday and the leader is 5 car lengths ahead ot the checkerd flag I hope we don't hear that the race was boring because of it.
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» Confirm Abuse Reportkcysr said:
Nov 25, 2009 at 2:57 PMJerry you are nuts if you don't think Robbie Gordon has talent you should check out the in car camara coverage of the Baja 1000 and you might realize some of the guys winning don't have as much talent as you think it is the car they are driving.
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» Confirm Abuse Reportdaviclar38 said:
Nov 30, 2009 at 3:06 PMLower the banking by 5 degrees, bring back the spoiler because it acts better both going forward and back. Add flaps to the deck lid and possibly the hood. Run two heats then a main!
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» Confirm Abuse ReportSTP43FAN said:
Dec 6, 2009 at 3:29 PMNo, Daviclar38 - lower banking is more dangerous and inferior racing. KCYSR - At Dover 160 is proportionately faster than 200 at Talladega, and the G-readings show it. The cars being equal is what it is supposed to be, and the argument "they can;t pass without help" is false because the definition of "they can't pass without help" being used in this argument is false - "you can't pass without help" is supposed to mean there is a physical inability to get any kind of run to pass the car ahead; in restrictor plate racing there is no such condition until handling gets in the way of passing as is the case at Daytona.
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» Confirm Abuse ReportSTP43FAN said:
Dec 6, 2009 at 3:31 PMThe bottom line is there is nothing in the aero that is the problem - the problem is the cars are hitting 205 in trap speeds and they have to mandate a substantially smaller restrictor plate to cut the speeds to 190.
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